Effectively Managing Your Time and Energy

Scott Rutherford: Welcome to the AXIOM Insights learning and development podcast. My name is Scott Rutherford. This podcast is focused on trends and best practices supporting organizational performance through learning. In today’s episode, we’re spending some time exploring what people in sales roles can learn to better manage their time, mindset, and resilience, and what those of us who are not in sales roles can learn from the techniques which were developed to support sales performance, in a workshop called Energy Is The New Time. Joining me is Bill Walton, a sales training and performance training expert who developed the Energy Is The New Time workshop. Bill Walton: Very proud to have been working with Fortune 500 organizations as well as early stage companies to help them with their client acquisition efforts and mean more to the existing clients that they currently have. My journey was basically a three stage journey as a sales leader and a sales manager. In the consumer products organization woke up one day realizing I had more of a passion for learning than I did for selling the next truckload of Nestle's Quik to one of my employers, and follow that journey and had a chance to work for some larger training and coaching firms and picked up a graduate degree along the way, and found myself in a situation where I had a little bit of cash flow and a few paying clients and really wanted to follow that lead. And I was really smart to attach myself some some really good mentors. And once you have a few gray hairs, gray hair and walk a few hallways, you pick up a point of view along the way. And we've been able to do that. Scott Rutherford: So I wanted to dig into some of that experience and explore with you what the rest of us those of us who are not explicitly in sales roles, can learn from your insights, helping people in sales and business development. In particular, we can just start out with the focus of the workshop that you that you organized called the energies the new time. And I think he's you sort of allude, I think we're all managing stress. We have day to day stressors, everyone's trying to balance, workday stress, or other commitments. So the pressures on time and energy are acute, I think at the moment. So how did you come to develop energy is the new time as a workshop? And what can the rest of us learn from it? Bill Walton: Well, you know, I, I'm going to work from the present, and then go backwards, I talk about over the last two and a half years of our pandemic and emerging out of our pandemic, we're all forced to adapt to the digital world, enhance our technical skills, or computer skills, or video or, or webcam skills, and audio skills to be able to continue to function and communicate and relate. And I think for some that was an easy transition others it was really tough, because many of us if not most, certainly in the sales profession, we're social beings, right? We're used to being out and connecting and getting on a on a train or a plane and going to the traditional sales call and meeting and engaging was part of the fun, it was part of the excitement of being out and being in sales and being that Ambassador of your brand ambassador of your company. And I think that coupled with now the ability to connect and relate to customers and prospects in this kind of remote digital world was different for folks, we had to focus on our messaging, we had to focus on timing and cadence on when is what's the right platform to reach people? I don't know where they are. Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on social media? Is it okay to call them? Are they picking up their phone? So there's, I think there was a lot of unknowns that call it caused a lot of stress. And I think he hit it right on the head, you know, working out of your home or home office or some remote location. Now you have, you have to balance other responsibility. So I think there's a convergence of three themes that really caused a lot of stress for people this concept of digitization and remote work, being constantly available or accessible. And then I think the nature of knowledge work in general, we're not slapping bumpers on the back of Ford Fairlanes anymore, and don't have our 10 o'clock break and our two o'clock late break, and we go home at five or four, we have knowledge work, which means change variability, things are trending, things are changing, things need to be done. There are shifting sands in terms of priority. So that alone causes a lot of stress. And I think what causes the stress is a blurred focus, what's the most important thing I can be working on right now. And I think if you don't have a chance to schedule your time for what's important, getting the right work done at the right time, and you don't have that inner kind of gyroscope to do that. That creates a lot of stress. And then there's a lack of this feedback network, it's, well am I doing enough? When you're working in a face to face environment, either you're working on a team, you have colleagues or a boss or a sales team, or other folks you're responsible to, you're getting some immediate feedback, either facial expressions, tone meetings, right? kind of connected, that connective tissue is not there anymore. So I worry about that. And so for a couple of reasons, as we think about our stress levels, and what's really important, some are dealing with it well, some aren't. Some are focusing on work. I'm not giving myself permission to go to the gym or go for a run or do something that's going to help me with my grounding in terms of who I am my spiritual energy, my physical energy, and having the right time for thoughtful activity. It sounds like kind of a run on sentence but as I think about today, and going back to when I when I started my business, and I had this bravado of well, I can't go to the gym anymore. I can't go out during the week. I've got to work. I'm an entrepreneur now. And I'll never forget I went on vacation. Should I order this book, The Power of full engagement was really funny. I thought it was a consulting book right before we engage, make money. That's what consultants do. And I threw it in the duffel bag, we went on vacation down to the islands. And I was remember, I was in the gym one day trying to get back into my routine, and I was just so tired. And that's not who I am. So I thought it was kind of strange. I talked to my wife about it and went to the pool and started reading this book and realize that I was maxed out. I was trying to keep a entrepreneurial focus beyond my limits and capacity to focus and operate at an optimal level. So what I did was today, you know, as I go backwards, and I will pull our listeners forward. Again, as I think about energy as the new time I pull upon the sleep research from Nathan, clients, about 30 years old, he did a lot of work into research into REM sleep, and the famous eight hours of sleep is healthy for us all. But he also came up with this concept called the ultradian rhythm. And what Nathan posited was we can, as human beings, we can have an optimal focus for about 90 minutes for any tasks that's worthy. But that has to be followed by some element of rest, five to 10 to 15 minutes, whether that's get out of your chair, walk around, go get a coffee, go talk to a colleague, or maybe switch the wash over to the dryer, which I'm known to do during the day, but then come back at this kind of next 90 minute bursts. So what we try to do is let's work with these dynamics of optimum focus, because literally, what do we think our colleagues and our clients are buying, right, if, at the end of the day, they're buying our ideas, our vitality, or their hopefully they're drafting off of our vitality, and our issue fluency. And I would say intellectual curiosity, the best salespeople I know are highly engaged, they really love what they do. And they can download themselves into the client world immediately and, and have a real peer to peer conversation. But if you're out of balance, and you're not a full engagement, and you're still trying to do time manage versus energy management, the world all of a sudden gets very transactional and tactical. And then it starts to sound transactional and tactical. And that's when it sounds like I'm being a salesperson, that's when you sound like a salesperson, as opposed to the trusted adviser. So I think it's important to understand what prospects and clients really value from us. Scott Rutherford: It sounds to me like what you're describing in terms of managing your own time managing your own energy, so you can be more present and effective. It's a two, it's a double edged blade, if you're looking at it that way, because on one hand, each individual has to be able to have the self-discipline and awareness to be able to take those breaks and recharge and refocus and re-energize as a part of the daily routine. But also, I think the other edge seems to me that you alluded to this earlier, especially in the world of remote work, the optics of taking those breaks becomes more difficult, in my opinion. Because in an office situation, you can take five minutes, walk down to the watercooler get yourself a cup of coffee, people still know you're on the job, they know you're working. That's sort of the old way of looking at it, you're visible, no one's really going to question that five minute walk about. But in the digital world, I think people are less secure about well, what happens when I get the instant meeting requests or, or a chat request or a call? And I'm not at my desk? What does that look like? And so part of it, I think, is the organization having some mono cultural support of allowing people to manage their time like that. And what do you think? Are you seeing that or am I off base? Bill Walton: Oh, I see it, and I live it. And I think you have to give yourself permission and courage to say in that moment, I wasn't available, and put the period at the end of the sentence. I was talking to a colleague and I was I had a I took a minute to organize my office and I had my all my haptics, my all my sounds and buzzes and tweets turned off. Sorry, because those are requirements for keeping on your daily path. What folks need to understand is that a time slot is not a time slot is not a time slot. We all do better at reviewing financial information or have our analytical hat on if you will or analytical lens at various times throughout the day. When do you want to draft a proposal? When do you want to create the financial piece of the proposal? When do you want to create that PowerPoint that needs to be a little creative? When do you want to have the performance review with a colleague or your boss or team meeting with a peer. So you got to get a sense for when you're at your best and day part and burst part, if you will, so that you can be at your best for that activity. And also, there's that whole kind of time expansion phenomenon where if we don't limit ourselves around the time, or tell us, hey, listen, I've got an hour and a half for this proposal, that's all I need. And I'm gonna get it done in an hour and a half, you could easily spend three to four hours on it. Because you think that's the right thing to do. So you can have a little bit of fun, and be creative with some of these bursts as you are giving yourself confidence that, hey, this is not going to be perfect, but at least I'm doing my best to align responsibility management with energy management. Yale University, about two and a half years ago, had a great study, they were talking about this, this, this, this phenomenon, and they coined this phrase, the engaged but exhausted generation, these are typically your high potentials, leaders of the organization, the folks that are very passionate, that no matter what, they're always going to be there for you, they're always going to make their number, they're always going to be accountable. But they there, they have other pieces of their life that might be out of balance, ie family, energy, too many trips to Starbucks, not enough renewal for themselves. So I think it's very important for folks to be mindful of that. Scott Rutherford: So in the context of the workshop, in that three hours, how do you approach walking people through not just the philosophy of, of of the need, but tactically, how do you make a change? How do you how do you shift your own behavior? Bill Walton: Yeah, what's kind of funny, it's funny, you said three hours, I say, three hours. And I say three shifts are three kind of Points of Light, kind of where we are. So we're gonna go from time management, operating in a world of time management, which we know is really not possible, to energy management, to the shift to full engagement, where our physical and our emotional, our mental, and our spiritual energies are aligned, and we're so getting the right work done. But what's great about the workshop is we're not just creating awareness around it. It's very tactical and tangible. Because we're attaching this to goal setting. We have metrics and tools to help folks get more from their time. Some of my favorites are, for example, the big six list, and the weekly most vital outcome. And let me call that an M.B.O. - Mary Victor Ostrich, MBO. One of the things that most people don't do, and we set to plan we don't think about what's my, what's my goal for the week? No one ever does that. We look at our list for the day. What do I need to do to today so I can survive and get to tomorrow. But we're not thinking about what is the most vital outcome. And then one of the things that I have found is most of these time management programs, try to give you confidence by creating the master list of 147 things that you have to do or should be on some list. And for about five to six or seven minutes, you feel the glory and the relief of having that list of origin 47 things -- Scott Rutherford: Forty-seven? You’re eating a whale! Where do you begin? Bill Walton: So where do you begin? So when you can create a big six list to say, Listen, what are the six most powerful things that I can realistically, realistically get done today that are going to lead in and feed into this weekly, most vital outcome? Then I start to see that this is possible because what happens most often with these time management programs is everyone starts with good intention. We fall off track, and then it becomes punitive. Oh, you silly goose, you didn't finish it, or hey, you didn't, you know, beat back your other priorities, you know, you fell off the track. And what happens is when in the era of remote work, if you have any sense of duty accountability, or competitiveness or purpose, responsibility, we're hard on ourselves. But if we're hard on ourselves in isolation, that's not healthy for anybody. So we try to do is create these metrics and these benchmarks I laugh with it with the audience all the time. I said some of my most productive days are when I go over the recycle bin in our office. And I grab a piece of paper, I fold it in half and I find the nubbiest pencil I can find and I create my big six list. But other kickers, I think some of the tangible nature of this program both for sales audiences and non sales audiences as everything should fit into some big humongous audacious goal, a term acronym of BHAG which is was coined by Jim Collins. Jim had written a few books, Good to Great was his most recent. And also built to win where he literally in his tea he and his team chronicled what made successful companies and not just a great product or operational excellence, it was their focus on leadership and humanity and culture, in addition to really good execution. And what he found was these were organizations that had lasted that were built to last. And that went from good to great, focused on goals, Big Humongous Audacious Goals, that almost kind of felt impossible. But as a as a result of going through a program like ours, it starts to feel more tangible. I can do that. And we all need a poll, right? We feel like we're being pushed into our work. But when you can create some of these goals, and some of these rituals that actually pull us into the activity. I think about my day, though, the work that maybe you and I both do, I I feel over the last 20 years, I really haven't worked, I'm doing what I love to do. Now, does it get stressful? Are there obligations, what I love not to have to travel all the time? Sure, but you know, I'm very passionate, I love what I'm doing. And I find that the folks that are coming out of this experience, are now finding some of that vitality or claiming back some of that passion. Some of our clients see their salespeople. Now they've got that intellectual curiosity and taking more time to really figure out what the personas they're connecting with what really matters to them. You know, what, how are they? How are they making money? What are they wrestling with? What are what are they really trying to accomplish? And things have gotten back to being more strategic and less kind of tactical and transactional in their messaging is better? Scott Rutherford: Well, that sort of structure, it seems to me would help people become in maintain resilience. Maybe that's, that's a different way to phrase what we're talking about. But it strikes me that you know, to be personally resilient in the face of challenges, stressors at work, your resilience can be can be bolstered by the fact that you know, that you're working toward a shared mission that you know, that the you know, that the poll is there, it occurs to me that resilience is something that I think we really the rest of us in the working world can learn from salespeople, their way back in the midst of time, I did a little bit of sales. And it's a -- it's a stressful, rejection filled world sometimes. And resilience is key, that's an area that we probably can learn a lot from. Bill Walton: I you know, I It's I'm so I think thank you for that, by the way. And I'd say that what folks are really getting out of this program is that they now can define resilience related to their world and who they are, and, and create this kind of list of non negotiable standards for themselves to say, Hey, listen, I'm not going to get too intensely emotional about if I don't win a sale, or I was late for a meeting or whatever kind of elements of their plan that they're, we have a little planner in that program, we list our tolerations and things that we tolerate, either through our own practices or environment or colleagues, customers, prospects, what have you, that's really important to connect with. And now I'm not going to have that reaction, because that's, that's going to take me off my energy management plan, I'm going to choose not to linger on that point, or dwell too much on that feedback that I got from a colleague or feedback that I got on a proposal from a client, I'm going to just accept it as is, and think about what's great about this situation, then just pivot where I can and then also be mindful of where I am in my day if my next burst is coming up. And when I can handle this, I'm going to be a little bit more rational and pragmatic in my thinking with myself, give myself permission to have my little moment with it, whatever that is a little delightful frustration, and then kind of move on and get back to kind of where you were. And I think that resilience really helps you again, knowing that perfection is really tough to come by. But with a really good plan and some really good research base content that you know, when I can do it, and I'm going to be better for it. And I think the folks around me, my my colleagues, my peers, my leadership team, and most of all my clients are going to benefit. And what folks that have gone through this program have said is that folks are drawn to meet my client, I'm having deeper conversations. I'm listening better, because I'm giving my self permission to do that. I'm not filling my head to say, I don't have those three puffed clouds over my head anymore saying, Gosh, I wonder how this is going? What's the next really clever question I can ask where's this gonna go? And, gosh, do I think I really still have a chance of making the sale? And I think I have still have 15 minutes in this conversation. What else can I say? Right? It's you're just being there and being present. And, and again, the tools in the program are giving people permission to do that. If nothing else, in the spirit of resilience, recognizing what they're doing and what's happening, right, while it's being present. Scott Rutherford: As you say it's being present and listening. The type of deeper conversation you're describing, it seems to me or is built on the development of trust. First, and that can be a sales conversation, it can be a non sales conversation, I think trust is imperative in business conversation generally. So I think there probably is a lot everyone learn, myself included about how to listen and to be present and to be inquisitive, using the term you said before, about what the person who you're speaking with cares about. Bill Walton: You know, I'm also an executive coach. It's interesting, I think about the last few executive coaching cases where I was brought in to support someone, one of the things that I often get asked to do is work with leaders that are, tend to skew to the to introvert, introversion in cultures or organizations where they want their leaders to be a little more demonstrative, be a little more vocal. So oftentimes, I'll ask the question, Well, does this person offer up any viable commentary or insight or input in meetings? And they'll say, oh, yeah, yes, yes, they do. Okay, great. When do they typically do that? At the start of the meeting, when you're going through the agenda? Or maybe when you're getting ready to, to break up and go on to your next meeting? That's typically at the end? Right? What do you think that person is doing during that 47 minutes of the meeting, and they may be oftentimes off offer up the golden egg or the elegant, the elegant solution? What do you think they're doing? And typically, my client, my sponsor doesn't have the answer. And I said, they're processing, they're integrating, and they still want to have an impact. So that's just an isolated example where what energy is a new time, can help you do as quiet your mind a little bit, and be the better listener or be a better coach, depending on you know, if you're a leader, there is no better way to validate and affirm your employees than to have them feel that they've been intensely listened to. And that's a real skill. So I think, as it relates to full engagement, the concept that was really came from a book called The Power of full engagement, Jim Schwartz and Tony Blair had had written this book, Gosh, 12 to 15 years ago, it has broader application to engagement, because we're, if we're working remotely and we're in we're in this world of the digital matrix, then oftentimes, this engagement is all we have. So if I'm a leadership cadre, and I'm running an organization, I'm going to invest whatever I can to make sure my people are connected, and they've got these personal management skills, these self management skills to be able to adapt to this. Sometimes it feels like a world without a floor or a world without a net, as we kind of operate. You know, a lot of the skills, the military, using the skills of all the major corporations are doing that. We're glad just to be a part of that to again, help sales organizations, but help those that also support them. Because at the end of the day, there is no they were they were. And, you know, we're the oftentimes the army of one. So I think that's some of the benefit folks are getting out. It's again, it's tangible. I think the other two things, if I may, of course, is that participants are understanding what's happening, they're understanding why I might not might not be in full engagement or not practicing energy management. And then then now they have a little bit of this research foundation, or they have this the understanding of the shifts that have kind of put us all here. So you can almost sense as I facilitate this program, a little bit of the air comes out of the balloon. And folks are like, okay, now I get it. It's not just me. And you know what, there's hope for me, right, because again, this exhausted but engaged generation of employees, certainly salespeople, but also anyone, any high powered folks that are really passionate about what they're doing and who they're doing it with. Now, they've got a path forward, and they can understand what was happening. And that's what I got from reading the book, the powerful engagement, I was reading this menu of my life, I did all these things wrong. That was me. Yep. over caffeinated. That was me didn't go to the gym, that was me didn't go for a walk after work, you know, with, with my wife, I didn't do all those things that boy, if I just done that, it's a 20 minutes of that 15 minutes of that would have created so much more space for me. So it's very rewarding as a facilitator and gratifying to deliver this, because you can see the light bulbs popping at every single stage of the program. So we're excited about that. Scott Rutherford: Well, to shift gears a little bit, you alluded a minute ago to what we can do in maybe learning and development manager roles to support the sales organization supporting sales organization more broadly. And I did want to, I did want to ask about because you have a wealth of experience, broadly in in managing sales as a function means managing the training of sales. It occurred to me that sales professionals are not monolithic -- there's variance of people in terms of their backgrounds, but also large variance in their businesses. So you could talk about how do you support someone selling in an enterprise software environment who is has a complex high dollar sale that takes you know, 18 months to close, versus someone who's in a commodity wholesale sales role or a consumer sales role [where] it's a transactional business and things are turning quickly. How do you approach? Or how would you advise someone to devote to design and devise a sales training and support structure for their business? And what what do you look for? And how do you make it the right fit? I realized that’s a many-tendriled question but I wanted to get your thoughts. Bill Walton: Now it's a great one and I and we are, we're committed and went to graduate school with some very senior learning partners. And, you know, it's just, it's the other side of the mirror for me. So I'm very empathetic to the role that they're in. But certainly, we're glad they're there. I am a product of having really great training and coaching and leadership as a as a young executive. So really love that community, I think a couple things to think about to your first point about, you know, having more of a wholesale kind of transactional sale versus a sales cycle, it's a little longer, a little bit more complex. I think, understanding the sales process. And some of the milestones and the metrics and the behaviors that have to happen at every step of that sales process is a great way for learning professionals to kind of unhook and think about what type of learning do I provide my organization, because there's always going to be a blind spot in the sales process where, at the front end, hey, I've got some really great analytical folks. They can create a, an organization map and really figure out who's who in the zoo and know which conversations we need to have for second. And third, that's wonderful, because once once they get to the client interface, it all becomes some mishmash of of early conversation that maybe we're getting out over our skis and talking about solution too much. That could be someone else's blind spot in the in the converse can be true, versus the tactical sale. Well, let's think about how our buyers buy. If we're, if we're selling a tactical transactional product, where in our sales process, can we maybe slow that down a little bit, to get a little bit more engagement on the part of either it's a procurement professional supply chain professional or an owner of a company. So at least they see the value of our engagement and our the value of our involvement in this process, versus just being an arbiter, and a, a rite of passage or a pathway to just buying a product. So I think there are value points, inflection points in every sales process, no matter what you're selling, and who's doing it, where you can examine that and train to that. So I think that's really helpful. One of the things I get concerned about, and I'm mindful, but in there's solutions for it, is that many organizations have anywhere between three to four demographic bands under one roof of salespeople, right from the college graduates fresh off the college campus who want to focus on a career in sales to folks that maybe have five to six years of experience to folks where maybe in their late 30s, early 40s, on bring age into this, but – Scott Rutherford: Well, you can talk about experience. And actually I my observation has been that tenure in sales tends to be I believe the word is bimodal. You either have people who are, you know, zero to five years experience, or maybe even zero to three, there tends to be a fairly high rate of burnout in that those early years, or you have people who have been doing it for 25 or 30 years, and are stellar, and it's all they will ever do. Do you see that? Is that just my is it? Is my lens not aligned with yours? Because if it is bimodal in that way, it seems that the training and support that we would need to put into the business strategically has to deal with Okay, well, first, how do you support and and scaffold around the the folks who are early career to bridge that gap to make them successful? So they can become late career? Bill Walton: I work with a lot of early career salespeople, in across many industries, I think what learning organizations need to understand is what they lack and it's to no fault of their own, is they lack business acumen. They lack the understanding of various industries, how their channels of distribution work, what their value chain, what their value proposition is, and they don't have that ability to kind of peer into the organization and think about where their solutions or products can fit. And so that's where I think learning organizations are doing a great job is giving younger salespeople are perspective into the industries that they're selling into. And they're helping them with their issue fluency. One of the things that if you're a seasoned salesperson, to me, you have to be careful there because this you can have people that have 20 years of experience, but 20 years of selling in the wrong way. So what is that 20 years of experience really about? How many business cycles has a have they sold through? Right? So I think about my own organization, my own experience, I started my business eight months before September 11. And then we got On a rhythm through tooth from 2002 to 2007, all of a sudden we had a five year recession, then we recently had the pandemic. So we're learning organizations are really helping their folks pivot, thinking about what skills that they need to have. And I think we were all caught a little flat footed coming into the pandemic, because now we're all working remotely, do we have the right webcam, what kind of technology do we have, maybe we've all kind of tried to get the last maybe year or two out of that laptop that just is not going to be able to have the horsepower for us to continue to work remotely. So I think, you know, getting off tangent here. But I think now that we can understand the demographics of your Salesforce and what folks need, you can now tailor that curriculum. And on the one hand, it's interesting, we're tucked back to energy as the new time. That's actually a program that I recommend for the Top Gun of organizations, right, that top 10% Your high potentials that are all the way over to the heart, right of the talent sales talent curve, because they don't need sales training, what they need is they need a survival strategy, they need to be able to, you know, operate at that high level of, of engagement. It's a behavioral performance sustainment strategy at that point. It’s funny - I was at a large financial organization was down in Dallas, Texas last year and they're all sitting in these very interesting big huge room with pick your picture a huge Ballroom with a square between 100 250 Lazy Boy easy chairs. And it was it was a great for everyone's very relaxed and I'll never forget someone in the front row. I can tell this person very successful said Hey, Bill, this this office stuff kind of sounds pretty good. Do you think I should you think I should do some of this. And I smiled at my sponsor. And then I looked back at this individual I said, everything and I'm sharing with you here today is a survival strategy, not a serving suggestion. And I say serving suggestion, like the picture on the box of your famous frozen dinner. And I think everyone laughed and they really got it. And one of the things I love to say is I still carry the bag, I am one of you, I everything that I profess. Certainly everything that's in this program energy is the new time I do and I know when I've fallen off track or I think I laugh all the time, we have this beautiful park right next to our offices here. I'm in the Princeton, New Jersey area. And the three towns got together and created the 60 acre park and when I either go out for a ride or a jog or a walk, brisk walk that is I always come back with three bankable ideas. Scott Rutherford: Well, I'm hoping people are listening to this conversation, maybe as they're on a walk in the park. And it provides a little extra ammunition and energy for some of the folks listening. But I appreciate your perspective and your thoughts. It's been a pleasure speaking with you here. Bill Walton: Oh, thank you very much again. However, I can support this community. And I think one of the things that I would want to let folks know is to know that there's their support out there and you're not alone. And we're all kind of figuring out what our level would be and how we get to this new level of energy management. So we're all on the journey together. So I'm glad I could be with you. Scott Rutherford: Thanks to my guest Bill Walton. If you’d like to make the Energy Is The New Time workshop available to your team, which is available from AXIOM through our partnership with Zeiberg Consulting, you can find more details at our website, AXIOM Learning Solutions dot-com, there will be a link in the podcast notes for this episode, or you can view all available workshops by clicking on the Learning Content Catalog. This podcast is a production of AXIOM Learning Solutions. AXIOM is a learning services company, and works to support L&D teams with the people and resources to accomplish virtually any learning project. When you have a learning goal and need more resources, AXIOM can provide the staffing and project support to help you be successful. If you’d like to discuss how AXIOM can help support your learning initiatives, contact us for a complimentary conversation, at axiomlearningsolutions.com. Thanks again for listening to the AXIOM Insights podcast.