Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Axiom axiom. Axiom. Axiom.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Axiom. Axiom. Axiom. Axiom. Insights learning and Development podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Podcast focused on improving performance through learning.
We all know that as learning professionals, we need to find ways to work with the leadership and the stakeholders in our organizations to find ways to make learning more effective and to do that by building trust and alignment between learning and learning measurement activities and the strategy and desired outcomes of the business. In other words, what we often refer to as having a meaningful seat at the table. And that's really the topic I'm exploring today with my guest. Dr. Keith Keating is Chief Learning Officer and Talent Officer and has worked with numerous Fortune 500 companies across the world. He's an industry keynote speaker and an advocate for talent development. He's also the author of a new book called The Trusted Learning Advisor, which can be described as both a manifesto for the need of learning professionals to elevate our place in our organizations, but also as an instruction manual and a toolkit about how we can make that happen.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: I would say you're correct that it's part manifesto and part toolkit. And I wrote it with the intention that it's not a sit down and read the book cover to cover and be done with it and think, oh, that was a nice story. This is something that I expect Learning Development leaders and practitioners will have on their desk throughout their journey, throughout their transformation and when a situation arises, new client, difficult relationship, still receiving the order, wanting to grow as a Learn Development practitioner that they're going to go to the guide, open up that chapter and digest really what's there.
The reason I say that is, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a little overwhelming, it's nothing but strategies, tactics, best practices, tools, tips and tricks and 260 pages of that can be a lot. And I knew that going into it. But I also had so much that I wanted to share that's helped me on my journey that I did not want to leave anything out. And so I struggled with that and just thought, it's going to be both manifesto, it's going to be a toolkit and a guide to help our industry evolve. To your question about the why, we have been inherently order takers since the beginning of LND being involved or part of organizations. And that's how it started. It started with managers determining what workers needed to do and they told us what they needed to do and we went and trained them on what to do. We started as order takers, but over the years we have gained a different set of skill sets, practitioner skills, experience. We understand now the science of learning. We have a lot of other value outside of just being order takers. And I've experienced being an order taker throughout my entire career and I'm still treated like an order taker, regardless of being a doctor in education, regardless of my job title of anything else, every relationship I find starts with me being an order taker. We are at a stage right now where it's no longer we can just sit passively and be order takers. We have to be trusted learning advisors. We have to be strategic business partners at this point because our future depends on it. And the statement that I'm using, which we've used for ages, is evolve or else. And really the choice is ours. And what I mean by that is we didn't have a great threat before. It wasn't like there was something that could necessarily replace us. There is now. And AI is truly a threat to the portions of L and D that is mediocre. And what I mean by that is our business partners can now go to chat, GPT, whatever their favorite AI tool is and in minutes they can create a course.
And it's not going to be great, it's not going to follow the science of learning and what we do, but it's going to be good. And sometimes good is simply good enough. And I'm already hearing executives ask, well then do I need an L and D department if I can just go and create a quick sales course or a leadership course myself?
That's the question we have to proactively answer for them. And we have to be demonstrating that value of why we still need to be existing in the future when there are tools that can complement us, in my opinion, not necessarily replace us. But there's this whole other value proposition that we've got to be adding in to the conversation, and that is being a strategic business partner, otherwise known as a trusted Learning advisor.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: And that's owning your own expertise. Right? And I'll use the parallel of medicine because I think that there's a little bit of truth there to say, well, individuals can go on WebMD now and self diagnose and to some degree you can buy things over the counter and self treat. There is still, however, I think, a value that most people wouldn't argue too much about to going to your physician who has the expertise and the context to be able to do that. What you describe in L and D is intake, discover, analysis, decision. It's understand the symptoms, prescribe the right solution and follow it through.
Is that a fair parallel?
[00:06:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. In fact, I am guilty of being a WebMD expert and the minute there's something wrong, I go to WebMD, I search it, I get the list, I go to my doctor and I give them the order, hey, I researched this. Here's my Ailments, here's what I think we need to do to solve it. And they say, thank you very much, sit down. We're going to take your blood pressure and we're going to start over and we're going to do it our way. And I listen because they're the expert. They are my trusted advisor. So even though I went into that conversation with the order and wanted them to be the order taker so that I could get out of there quickly, that's not how they operate. That's the same mentality that we have to follow. It's the same respect that we essentially need to demand, not overtly, but indirectly by demonstrating the value that we can provide through things like the Idad process, intake, discovery, analysis, and decision. So yes, your analogy is spot on.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: It's interesting too, I think, when we think about what's the role of the trusted learning advisor and how do we elevate ourselves in an organizational conversation, part of it is trust. And we'll get into talking about how we build trust internally, I'm sure, as we get through this conversation. But part of it is also just realizing that the solutions that we bring forward and the answers to the problems that we're given have to be responsive to the request, right? We can't say everything needs to be, to use the extreme example, everything can't be a 40 hours sit down classroom course. Nor can everything be micro learning in a session. That Jay Leturno of the MBTA did for us when we went to the Tyce conference this past summer, he sort of said to the, look, you know, that Preston, that's a job aid. That's not a course. That's a piece of paper that teaches you that the street sign has changed. In the case of his example, sometimes small is okay, is part of this building trust, right? Sizing, your response to the person you're.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Speaking with 100%, and I would add on to what you were saying is maybe it's a job aid, maybe it's not even training at all. There have been so many situations where it has nothing to do with us, but we are often the scapegoat. We're the easy out. There's an issue. There's a pain point somewhere in the organization. One of the first responses is, well, they need training.
And what that does is it creates this subset, or divisive mindset, if you will, where we're sending a group of people, we're not giving them any support beforehand, we're not giving them any support afterhand. And then we're sending them to a room or virtual, and we're saying, hey, for this number of hours sit in here and that's going to solve the problem. That is a start and a stop. They leave, nothing changes. Six months later, the business partner or stakeholder comes back and says, hey, we told you to create training. We sent them there and didn't fix the problem. Well, did we know what the problem was? Did we know how we were going to measure it? Did we know what the value proposition looked like at this? Did we know whether training was actually the issue here at all? And the answer is often, no, we don't. So to your point, in summary, it's not always training that's the problem. But we have to have the skill set to be able to have that conversation with our stakeholders and our business partners. And sometimes it's about the gentle art of persuasion and the art of negotiation and influence. I mean, influence is one of the most important skills that we need to have as trusted learning advisors. I'm in so many situations with organizations that I work with, especially as a consultant, sometimes I don't have a team. I don't have any authority there. So how do you change a mindset when you don't have that authority and it's influence, it's persuasion, it's negotiation. Yeah.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: And that's really the root of the matter because especially if you're coming into a new organization or a new role and you're trying to influence expectations that have been built up sometimes over years or decades, where if you're in a room, let's just take a hypothetical. You're sitting down with someone new on a first meeting and they're saying, I need you to train my people to this. Here's the problem. Here's what I want you to do as a new person.
You're sort of sitting there saying, well no, let's take a beat and you're pushing back. And that's uncomfortable.
[00:10:42] Speaker C: It is.
And we can unpack this in multiple ways. So one of the ways is their expectation immediately is stay in your lane. You haven't built up credibility with me yet. Who are you to come in and push back? So we often have that stay in the mentality lane. And that's where I think subtle strategy, persistence, but collaborative engagement is also important.
Now in the situation where it's a brand new relationship and we're having that conversation, sometimes we do take the order up front. And I use this analogy when someone's house is on fire and there is an emergency, you don't stand back and say, okay, you know what? Let's do a root cause analysis and let's figure out, was it electrical? Was it arson? Did you leave a candle burning? Did you leave the stove on? You don't do any of that. You don't do a needs analysis. You get as much water as you can and you put that fire out. Once it's stabilized. Then you're in a situation where you can look retrospectively. And a lot of times with new relationships that's the approach that we have to take is we need to take the order to build our credibility, to build that relationship, build the trust. And then at some point in the future, once we've demonstrated that we can successfully listen to them and execute, then they give us the opportunity to get into the conversation earlier rather than later. Because when you're in that room for the first time, you've already missed the opportunity for your needs analysis and all the other things that we know we need to do.
And that's okay for right then as long as you're having that conversation with them and also being upfront with them, I would even say goes to be as bold as to say in the future, I'd love to have this conversation sooner. I know that right now you're having this challenge and we're going to help you solve this challenge. You can still talk about what are the ways that we're going to measure this successfully, what is the type of support that we're going to receive in the organization to make sure this is successful. And at that point, those are the type of conversations you can have. And even just planting the seeds about the fact that you want to do root cause analysis, you want to do quantitative or qualitative research next time so that they're hearing that and they're planting the seeds, but you're also executing on what it is that they want to accomplish at that moment. There's this balance that we really have to navigate between being an order taker and being a trusted learning advisor. And I would say there's a scale and my goal is not necessarily to be an order taker, but it's to take the order. And there's a difference in the mindset between those two because an order taker will take the order and just execute and be done. Hey, look, I did what you told me to do. Here it is. When you're taking the order, you're listening to them, you're acknowledging the situation that they're in and you're willing to go and put forth the work. Now while maybe what they have asked you to do is happening subsequently, you can have a second line of defense happening where maybe you are doing some qualitative or quantitative research separately. Maybe you are doing some root cause analysis. You're still working this swim lane option A, which is exactly what they've asked, but maybe you're also starting on option B so that you can present to them more than one option in the future.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: And I like that in the book, you sort of refer to your stakeholders as a customer with the notion that and I think this builds on what you were just saying.
Your job is not only to meet them where they are and give them what they're asking for and solve the house on fire problem, but also find ways to surprise and delight and impress them. Impress being my word. But that's the tool you can use, or a tool you can use then to go back and say six months, a year later as your relationship matures, we'll say this is why it would be better if we have the upfront conversation.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: The surprise and delight is such an important part of being a trusted learning advisor. And think of it just like customer service.
I think we would be hard pressed if we couldn't remember the last time that somebody surprised and delighted us. That becomes almost our new normal. But those really stay in our mind. There's a scale. We remember the horrible, horrible experiences and we also remember those great warrants. And so for me, my motto is I want to always surprise and delight my stakeholder and I want to be thinking one step ahead of them. So one of my personal best practices, which I talk about in the book, is if my stakeholder had to reach out to me first, I failed. I want to be so connected. I want to have the reoccurring conversations. I want to be embedded in the business. I want to be engaging with them that they don't need to reach out to me. But something else that you brought up is when I think of the stakeholder and this is important for us as an industry to remember is oftentimes our stakeholder. Our customer is also an order taker. And we've got to remember that we feel like we're the order taker, but we're looking at them as the person that's giving that order when oftentimes they're the ones that are also given an order and they're passing that order to us. And so we've got to remember that they just might be a messenger conveying a statement, conveying a problem from another part of the business. And this adds a nuanced layer to how we think about the needs analysis. It's not just about understanding the request, but it's also about appreciating the dynamics of the requester and the situation that they're in and really being empathetic to them. And it goes back to kind of the fire statement. We don't know necessarily what's happening behind the scenes and what's triggered this pain point. But at the end of the day, I believe our goal is to make our stakeholders the hero of their own story. It's not about us elevating how great L and D is. It's about elevating our stakeholders and the problems that they're facing so that they become the heroes and indirectly we become the heroes that are supporting them. And that starts to build the trust. It builds the credibility, it builds the relationships. And that's what gets us into the conversation sooner rather than later.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah, and it builds that interpersonal aspect of it, too, because there's nothing I think more powerful in an organization is to be working with a group of colleagues that turn to you and say, you know what? You made us look good.
[00:17:43] Speaker C: To add to that. What I love, too, is when they come to us and say, what do you think? That's when you know that you've made it is when you're brought into that conversation before it becomes an order. And that is built off of your credibility, your trust and your relationships. And for me, when I think about credibility, that's when you're perceived as being believable and trustworthy. And the only way that you can accomplish that is by truly possessing LND practitioner skills. And one thing about our industry, it's very inclusive. We accept anybody which in transparency, I didn't have experience and so I am wholeheartedly admitting I'm one of the people that joined this industry. Zero experience, zero skills, became a trainer. I was the worst trainer that ever existed, but I had tenacity. And I got better each day. I studied. I studied hard, practice hard, and I built the skills up. And so I apologize to all of my early trainees who were in my class. I'm trying to make up for it now.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: That trajectory is so common, I couldn't even tell you or begin to count how many people I've met over the years who have that. I stepped into training because it was an opportunity, it was a challenge, it was a need.
The other trainer had something, someone needed.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: Someone to step up.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: And I did. But you felt your way through it. So many people do that.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: It's beautiful, but it's also dangerous. It's beautiful because it gives people an opportunity. It's dangerous because anybody can and is joining. And then they call themselves learning development practitioners. And then they get in the room and they don't have the skill set to follow through with it. They're not able to have these types of conversations. They're not trusted learning advisors. They don't know the science of learning. You've got to understand the science of learning. There is truly a science behind what we do in the way the brain works and the way people learn. And when you don't have those skill sets, you're doing a disservice to you, to your learners, to your organization, but to our entire industry. Because then it perpetuates this belief that anybody can be an l and d. So why do we even need an l and d department? Just let Mary take over. She's an HR or she's doing this. They can do that as well. I still see people cycled through l and d who are business subject matter experts today. I know a number of fortune 500 companies when I ask, hey, how did you get in here? Oh, well, I was in the business, I was in operations, and I knew the product. And so they decided to make me part of l d.
That's who I wrote this book for. I mean for the whole industry, but also for them, because I want everyone to have a guide as a baseline. For me, this book is about the baseline of the minimum viable product of what we should be if we want to still exist 20 years from now.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: Let's talk about the elements that you lay out in the book about you call them the five pillars of trust. And I think we've touched on a few of these, but in the book you talk about really these pillars, I'm just going to list them out and we can put them perhaps on the episode page to make an easier resource for people to refer to. But we're talking about credibility, reliability, intention, communication, and then what you call professional intimacy. Which is perhaps a tricky pillar, but one that's important. So we've talked about credibility.
You need to be a subject matter expert in the science of learning and the process of learning, as well as the topic you're instructing on reliability. Communication, I think to me go together.
I think intention is an interesting one because that's built in conversations where we're reminding stakeholders that you're on the same team, that you're after the same goal, that you're with them.
And I think sometimes that gets missed.
[00:22:03] Speaker C: It does. So to me, intention is about being transparent about the desired outcomes as well. It's about being bold. It's about purpose your motives and ensuring that that's aligned with what you're communicating to the stakeholders. And order takers don't do that. We just say, yes, we'll do it. Oh yes, that'll be the outcome. Yes, we're going to change all their behaviors and we're going to increase your sales tenfold and everything's going to be great. Yes, that's not a true intention.
I want to go back a minute though, because you had mentioned that reliability and communication to you kind of go together.
I would differ a little bit because.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: To me, reliability and at any point I'm paraphrasing your book.
[00:22:53] Speaker C: Okay, if I said that I need to go back, do a version two.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: No, that was my paraphrasing. So yes, reliability. So go ahead.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: So for me, reliability is consistently delivering on your promises and being dependable. And that really relies on you being aware of your own strength and your own limitations. And so all the five pillars are connected. Maybe a pillar isn't really the right way to think of it. I think of it maybe now more as threads. These are the threads that really hold us together as trusted learning advisors, but also to create trust. So first you've got to have your credibility. You have to be believable and authentic. And to do that, you have to have competencies as an L and D practitioner. Then you need to be reliable. You need to be consistently delivering on your promises. You've got to be dependable, which involves you being aware of your own limitations and your own strengths so that you're not out there committing to things that you know we can't do. Then there's professional intimacy and that's where you're establishing a close relationship and a deep understanding of our stakeholders. Our stakeholders are people. They're humans. We've got to be empathetic to them and understand them as a human. It's not just getting into meetings and getting right to business, but do you have conversations with them before the meeting? Do you go out for coffee? Do you stay after? Do you know about their family? Do you know what they like, what they don't like? You don't need to be best friends with them, but you do need to make an effort to understand who they are as a human. And for me, that's about empathy. And then there's intention, being transparent about those desired outcomes. Your purpose, what's your motive? Stakeholders can see right through those who have ill intentions or their own selfish motivation. And if for whatever reason you're going to have a selfish motivation, communicate that. Be transparent with your stakeholder because that should align to them. Maybe your intention is, I want to win an award, I want to be the best learning and development organization.
Your stakeholder wants that as well. So why not be transparent about that motive and have that communication? Because that's going to make them look good, that makes the business look good. And then last is communication and that's being honest and transparent. And this is an important one. Avoiding technical language and that we do so much of. When I say technical language, I'm talking about our speak, our language, our acronyms, our lexicons. Do you think your stakeholder knows anything about Kirkpatrick or Philips, ROI or Elton or Learning Transfer or LXPs? LMS? They don't know any of that. And that's not their job to know any of that. It is our job to understand their language and to pivot the words that we use, the acronyms, the vocabulary, we keep all of our learning and development jargon to ourself. We can use it amongst our own group. But when you're talking to your stakeholders, it's their language that we've got to be using.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: So those are the five pillars I liked. Also in the book, you sort of build from that to what you call the partner expectation and commitment charter, which to me it touches on a lot of those points but puts them down in writing and forces almost the conversation to say, look, this is what we're doing and what we agree on and how we're going to measure it and how we're going to proceed. So you can really, I think, eliminate or at least reduce the risk of assumptions being baked in. So how did you come to that?
[00:26:46] Speaker C: How great would it be if when you met somebody new, they came with a warning label so that you knew immediately specific things about them? Like for me, for example, my face, I have what's called RBF resting brat face. So when you see me on the street or you see me in a meeting, my face looks like I'm angry. That's just my DNA. I can't change that. But if we're just building a relationship and I said to you up front, hey, just want to let you know my face, don't try and read it, it doesn't really show how I'm feeling. I have RBF or another example, I hate the phone. My ringer is never turned on. For some reason, when the phone rings, it gives me anxiety. It has for years. So my ringer is never on. If it's an emergency and you are calling me, I will never get the phone call. But if you text me or you send me an email, I will respond to you in two to three minutes. No matter what time of day it is. I'm always connected, I'm always reachable, just not by the phone. So just those two pieces of information about me already give you insight and already setting our relationship up for success. So the Partner Expectation and Commitment Charter is a tool, a framework that you use a template. The minute you meet a new stakeholder, you're building a relationship. This is something that you fill out together, or you can take time and you can fill out your portion. They can fill out their portion, then you can come together and compare notes however you want to do it. The point is, it's a tool that helps you understand the other person, helps them understand you, gives clear communication, understanding and accountability in our relationship, which puts that emphasis back on trust and the performance in the Trusted Learning Advisor model. And this is it. It's an, iterative organic tool. It's not kind of just like a one and done and we leave it. But you're setting this up up front. So you know, what is our expectations? What can I expect of you as my partner? How often do you like to be communicated with? What's the method that you like to use to communicate? Like, for me, it's not the phone. I'd rather have a face to face. I'd rather have zoom. Let's text, text me anytime, I'll get back to you. So you're laying out that foundation of what your relationship is going to look like and you're creating those expectations and commitments from day one. Now you can go back and refer to it throughout your relationship. You can change it, you can update it, but it's also helping you from that intimacy standpoint. It's helping you from the communication standpoint. It's hitting on all of those five pillars.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: And I think just the process of filling that out or even just the fact that you'd have that in your hand when you walk in the door, it can be a tremendously powerful thing in a workplace.
I'll use an example from my own professional career. I just started a position with the University of California back in the day and I made a point and I sat down with some of the academic directors one on one. We just sat down and tell me about your world. I wanted to learn. And one of them came to me a year, maybe two later and shared with me that in their view, because they were junior on the job or they'd only had that role for a short period of time, they said, well, why does he want to listen to me? And it made such an impression, I didn't even realize it at the time. But being present and being an active listener can change the dynamic interpersonally. And so this charter process, to me, you're taking that and building it out on steroids.
[00:30:36] Speaker C: It's a commitment and. A foundation for building a successful partnership. What it does is it allows you to acknowledge there's a mutual respect. And that's what you're just talking about in terms of, why does the person want to listen to me? It's out of respect. It's out of understanding. Ultimately, it's about the fact that we share the same outcome, and that's wanting to be successful. So this is a tool that allows us to identify what are our shared objectives, what are we trying to achieve together in this partnership.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: In Keith's book, he also presents a five level assessment called the LND Maturity Level Model, which measures how you, as an L D professional are engaging with your organization. And it also provides a roadmap or a guide about what you can do to elevate your own performance. So I asked him to walk through the L D Maturity Level Model and explain what it is, what it means, and how we can use it.
[00:31:38] Speaker C: The intention is it's an instrument that allows you to gauge where you are today so that you know where you need to be going tomorrow. We think about how do we want to evolve, what do we need to improve on? You have to know where you are today.
Now, I've spoken with a lot of LND practitioners. I've been guilty of this too. We assess ourselves. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think of myself. It matters what my business partner thinks, what my stakeholders think, what my organization thinks. I've joined a couple of organizations, L and D groups before. In the beginning, I'll say, hey, how do you think we're doing? How are you doing? Oh, my gosh, we're great. We're great. Our level one surveys are great. Our business partners love us. How do you know this? Well, they tell us they love the lunches. Okay, so let's take a step back, and let's do a couple of things. One, let's have a self reflection and assessment, which we can do. Where do we fall on this model? But more importantly, what's the perception of our stakeholders? Where do they see us? Because at the end of the day, that's what we need to value the most, is how others perceive us. It's not about how we perceive ourselves. So I look at it at a few ways. How am I doing on the model? Where do I fall? Where does my team fall? Because there can be a significant difference. I may be what I think is a trusted Learner Advisor, but my team may not be there yet. And this is not an insult. It's not meant in a negative manner. But it's critical for us to evaluate where are we on this Maturity Model? Because we can't just go out to the business and say we are Trusted Learning Advisors. To me, you will not anoint yourself with that title ever. Just like leader, you don't put on your business card leader. You might put manager, you might put CEO, but you don't say leader. Other people are the ones that will determine whether or not you are a leader. Because if nobody's following you, then you're not leading anybody. And it's the same thing with being a trusted learning advisor. I'm not going to anoint myself with this. It's going to be up to how my business partners, my stakeholders perceive me, perceive the business unit. And so the maturity model is a way that we can, on an ongoing basis measure where we are and what we need to be working on.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: And regardless of where an individual might fall on that maturity model, there's an implicit responsibility that goes with that too. To say, well, you have to keep the learning and learning right, train yourself whether that's train yourself to better your skills. Even if you're satisfied being a learning administrator, you still have to advance your skill set. But certainly if you want to advance.
[00:34:27] Speaker C: Your practice exactly, you will never be a trusted learning advisor in perpetuity. It is not a destination, it is a journey. And it's going to ebb and flow like most things do in our life. I am sometimes perceived as a trusted learning advisor and sometimes I'm perceived and treated like an order taker. And that's going to be the way that the journey essentially flows. So it's just important to remember that, that it is a journey, it's not a destination. And it's something that we need to continuously strive for because there might be moments you achieve it. Well, the next day you might come in and you're back to somebody throwing an order over the wall for you. We have an opportunity in front of us and the opportunity is we can evolve or else the choice is ours. At this point, we are at a phase where there is technology that could conceivably replace us. We're at a phase where we've been order takers long enough that some parts of the business are starting to question what value we have, what's the relevance for us. And it's time for us to move away from that comfortable position of being an order taker because sometimes it is way more comfortable to just say, yes, I'll get it done. Even though you know in your head it's not the right solution, it's not going to change the behavior, it's not going to change the outcome. But you know what? I'm not in a good mood today and I don't feel like trying to negotiate or influence this stakeholder. I'm just going to do what they say and I'll suffer the consequences or someone will six months down the road, that is easy to do, but there is a long term detrimental ramification to that. And we're starting to see that now with people questioning what's the value of LND, the value of L and D, of learning and development of talent development is that we have the power to change lives. Learning changes lives. We wouldn't be where we are without learning, without education, without development. Our talent, our workforce absolutely needs us. AI is going to continue to disrupt the workforce and there are going to be a significant number of people who are impacted. Technology destroys jobs. It changes jobs, and it creates new jobs. And for all three of those, we are the backbone that supports the talent and the organizations through those challenges and through those changes. So we absolutely have value. We have to demonstrate that value by being true learning development practitioners, by being trusted learning advisors, by being strategic business partners, embedding ourselves in the business so that we can be here to be the voice of the talent and continue to help them grow and thrive.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Well, Dr. Keith Keating, author of The Trusted Learning Advisor, I appreciate your thoughts and thanks for coming on the podcast.
[00:37:31] Speaker C: Absolutely, my pleasure and great questions.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: Thanks again to Dr. Keith Keating. His book, The Trusted Learning Advisor is available on Amazon, and I'll place a link to the book and to Keith Kidding's website on the episode Axiom Learning Solutions.com podcast. And in this episode, earlier on, I referred to Jay laterno's session from this year's Tyce Conference, which we also covered in this podcast series as its own episode. We released it as episode number 14. It was part of the leading L and D series called Leading L and D creating the Environment for Growth. I'll have a link to that as well. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to share it with your colleagues and make sure you're subscribed to the Axiom Insights, Learning and Development podcast wherever you find your podcasts. This podcast is a production of Axiom learning solutions. Axiom is a learning services company which provides teams with resources to achieve your learning goals through custom project support and by matching your team with our network of thousands of vetted L D professionals like instructional designers, learning strategists, learning technology experts and more, who can work alongside your existing learning staff, either remotely or in person as needed. To learn more about working with Axiom, contact Axiom Learning Solutions.com. And thank you once again for listening to the Axiom Insights Podcast.
